Keeping up with independent filmmakers can be a bit of an endurance test. They’re largely some of the busiest people you’ll ever come across and particularly since their work nary allows them the luxury of free time and immediate correspondence, although in the case of Ghost Source Zero, I knew I had to try.
Was I 100%? Probably not. Sadly, nor was I able to meet him in person before he relocated himself and his family out West. That’s not to say that it won’t happen and I’m hoping I get to at some point before long. It’s much ado with my fascination toward his feature debut efforts on the aforementioned sci-fi thriller on which he was also graced with the chance to work with Larry Hama.
It’s pretty sick, and the process of how that all happened is equally more phenomenal, as you’ll learn in the following interview. Cheng has been on me about kind I’ve been about his success with Ghost Source Zero, and on that note, I make no apologies.
The concept footage I spotted on social media several years ago for this film pretty much echoed the kind of empassioned spirit and drive that I admire in a creative. The talent he had on hand made it all the more worthwhile as well, and that isn’t to say the film was perfect. It definitely has its flaws and a few frills, but none of it was hugely distracting from its intent, which is precisely why I wrote this review.
I couldn’t be prouder of Cheng and the people he’s aligned with. He’s among a cadre of creators who love what they do, and have the ganas, and also the John Wick-level determination, focus and sheer will to make something happen, and oftentimes better than the biggest of big scale million dollar CG feature length 3D IMAX shake-and-bake shit sandwich. I’ve spent years chasing films like this and writing about them, and I’ll continue to do so for as long as I still have working electronics and thumbs.
To this, I’ve come to learn that Cheng has plans; Plans that I like – Plans that I will support as long as he continues to ante up and do quality work in the process. On that note, I finally got to weigh in with him about his new feature film and probably rant a bit about sci-fi B-movie lore a little more than usual.
Enjoy, and when you’re done,click here to learn where you can access the film to rent or stream.
Greetings Mark and thank you for agreeing to this Q&A. How has the year been for you thusfar?
So far so good! I relocated my family to the West Coast for the weather and to be closer to filmmaking world of Los Angeles! Getting the GSZ out the door with Sony was a great milestone after so many years of work too!
Your audience, as far as I know, dates back to the release of Operation Red Retrieval. Were you making films before that? Or was that a starting point for you. Tell us about yourself and Planet Nerd Rage and how you got it all started. Were you still working at Nickelodeon at this time?
Operation: Red Retrieval was my first film that got widespread recognition. I had been making films beforehand and actually had a scifi/action short, “Deployment Strategy” picked up for digital/streaming distribution by a company named Indiepix. This was before Netflix was around so that was a big deal for me. But Operation: Red Retrieval got a lot of attention in part because it was a GI Joe fan film. I made the film, in part, to learn how to use a DSLR camera and the Final Cut editor. I was new to both of those. I was already working for Nickelodeon full time at that point, so all my films were done as part-time, side hustles! My big learning from ORR was that I didn’t have to make films alone – there were talented people out there to partner with, and that by doing so, we could handle projects larger in scope. That’s where Planet Nerd Rage Productions came from.
What was it like meeting Larry Hama for the first time being an in-roads to your partnership together on your feature debut, Ghost Source Zero? I can sort of see you two in an office somewhere on your laptops just cooking away at your keyboards.
I met Larry shortly after ORR was released online. A G.I. Joe fan connected us both, and we realized we were in the same city! I worked in Times Square, NYC, and he lived down in the Wall Street area. I’ll never forget our first lunch together over burgers- we talked about our favorite actions movies (Aliens), and gushed over the heydays of Hong Kong action cinema. By the end of the meal, it got real – “Hey what would it be like if we made a movie together?” And that was how it all started…
Talk about Ghost Source Zero and and how you came up with the idea. I remember originally seeing a 4.5 minute concept proof on Facebook and maybe pestering you for a YouTube link long before realizing you had plans for it. I was bummed I couldn’t embed the thing on my device at the time but I’m glad you were able to advance it the way you have.
I wrote the first draft of GSZ years before even ORR was made. I had a long Word Doc where I kept tons of notes about the world of GSZ, the state of the technology, the politics of the world. The idea was partly inspired by what i had been reading about human cloning. At the time, countries were preemptively banning human cloning while other nations were actively cloning cats and other animals. I thought- wow, what if the same happens with self-aware A.I.? What if that got banned on moral grounds? Who would innovate? Probably rogue nations and criminal organizations would if there was a big enough black market for that. In going through that world-building exercise, I started to get interested in the legal aspects of that scenario. Specifically, if an illegal criminal entity made huge ground-breaking advancements in technology, would they be allowed to patent it? Probably not. Anyway, that’s largely the groundwork for the story being told in GSZ.
The script itself was written without any budgetary constraints – I didn’t think I’d be able to make it anytime soon – but I was in love with the story and idea. When Larry and I started to discuss original story ideas, he gave me a novel he wrote, and I gave him GSZ to read. I’ll never forget the phone call I got from him sometime later. He was calling from his hotel room in some city where we was a guest artist for their comic book convention. He had just finished reading the script and said he thought that should be our project! I was like totally blown away by that!
The short film you’re referring to was originally a concept film for GSZ. As Larry, myself, and co-producer Joe Barbagallo got closer to re-working the script, we started to make short concept films. These started in part to test the look and tone we were all envisioning, as well as just to let out some creative juices and make stuff! Some of the shorts didn’t have much of a plot, but one ended up being self-contained enough to be its own story. “Protocol Deviation” was submitted to, accepted by, and released on The Machinima Network. It’s no longer available on their channel but we may be releasing it again soon via another distributor! Stay tuned on that!
What were the odds that you’d be able to get Hama on board? How pivotal must that have been for you even as a first time feature director?
Larry is the best to work with! He’s been a storyteller his whole life and just totally gets it – he gets how all elements of a story can come together in endless variations to make a great viewer experience. I think some storytellers will make a declarative like, “Character is everything..” or “It’s a visual medium so the visuals are the most important always.” I don’t get that from Larry – I think he knows it’s about the balance of all those elements – sometimes things are heavier on visuals, or being character weighted is where it’s at, or other times it’s the clink of bullet shell hitting the ground that will make a scene. He’s been a huge creative mentor but also a good life counselor and friend. He’s given me a lot of advice beyond our film work together.
Talk about casting for a bit because yours is a mixed bag of both acting talents and action actors. You have Joe Barbagallo both starring and producing, and I remember chatting with your co-star Kage Yami at one point, and he said intially came on board for stunts. You’ve got stunt performer Natalie Jean and as well as Jae Greene who does a fantastic job of turning your cast into fitting badasses and he himself is a co-star with a Russian accent.
If you agree (like I do) that every film production is like a family, you should rightfully be careful and selective about who you let into your tribe. If you believe (like I do) that sharing your creative vision with others is act of opening up and making yourself vulnerable, then you should rightfully be selective with whom you let into that experience. I spend a lot of energy in selecting whom I work with and have been fortunate enough to find my go-to people for life.
For example, I will never need to look for another stunt choreographer as long as Jae’s in the game. With regards to actors, it’s also about looking for the right things up front in the auditions – I look to see how each actor takes direction. I try to get to know them at the audition, learn what makes them tick, and see how they respond to different types of directing notes. I look at actors (and stunt people!) as collaborators so it can be really fun to see what they bring to the project, how they evolve it beyond what you had imagined! Jae speaking with a Russian accent is a great example of that!
Were there any specific challenges in terms of how you wanted to characterize some of these protagonists? Was there a process of elimination? Things you wanted to keep but couldn’t?
Oh man there are so many stories! First off- I’m an Asian American director working with a script I co-wrote with another Asian American. We’re well aware of the need for diversity in casting and diversity in the roles we create. We theoretically had full creative control over this film. But then I sit back sometimes and look at GSZ and I’m like, “Guys we have a white protagonist male with an Asian supporting actress who’s the love interest! We’re so unoriginal!!” In addition, it wasn’t until the rough cut was assembled that I made another realization, “Guys I think every African American character in our film either gets killed, is an android, is an android that gets killed, or is a party goer in a club.” But we didn’t cast it that way intentionally!
First off, I fought to have Jean Goto cast as the lead actress. She and I have known each other for a while and I had always wanted to work with her again and with a beefier, featured role. Secondly, I originally wrote a main good guy role for one of my actor friends who is African American but he had to pass because he was getting paid work offers. That character largely morphed into the Russian soldier that Jae ended up playing. You can’t control these things all the time especially on a low budget film. It probably bothers me more than it bothers others because those are two tropes I particularly don’t like – “Asian girlfriend” and “the lack of positive Black characters”.
This was a kickstarter-funded project and you recived just over a grand or so above your original goal which was about $65K. That sort of thing is not easy to accomplish for you, or even anyone daring not to turn to a studio for funding.
Yes, we were proud of that for sure but it’s a lot of work! And for me, I was particularly very aware of how many people we were indebted to. These are fans and family who believed in you enough to put money up. At the time of setting up the Kickstarter, we really had no idea how long it would take to complete the film. It was our first feature, and the biggest mistake was setting up the expectation that it’d be done in 6 months. It took over 2 years after the campaign to get it done! The one thing i am fiercely proud of though is that every penny of that campaign went directly into the making of that film. We didn’t spend it on ancillary things like someone’s rent or things I’d consider cheating like on a camera. I was working the whole time with a day job that paid my life expenses.
Were the logistics of this production any difficult for you? You shot in a few northeastern cities, I reckon. Or was it all here in New York City?
We filmed in and around New York City. Some of it was on the Jersey side. We had this one location that was awesome in how gritty and run down it looked – we did very little of our own art direction on that set. But it was right next to Newark Airport so we had planes taking off all the time! We had to keep pausing because the boom picked up a take off or landing!
The biggest logistical strain was timing – I didn’t initially have the confidence to shoot more than 3 back-to-back days. It wasn’t until the last stretch that the team literally pinned me down and got me to commit to a 14-day shoot. So there were a lot of pre-production ramp up for only a couple day shoot, and then we’d rest and start all over again a month or so later.
The other big logistical challenge came towards the end of the shoot. We had a critical actor that had to pull out of a shoot day because he got a great opportunity to be on a big production. We had to re-write the scene overnight knowing that we had a set number of actors showing up in a particular location. That was one of the days Larry’s talents really came through – I called him on the drive home from set and told him, “In 9 hours, we’re going to have these 6 actors show up on this set with these props, how can we alter the story so that actor so-and-so isn’t there?” He laughed and was like, “OK gimme an hour or so.” I remember getting home and receiving his new pages via email!! That’s how much Larry Hama rocks!!
Talk about filming Emily Dennis in the heart of Times Square in the wee hours of the evening. I *love* being there myself, especially with friends, and I know guerilla shots can be a hassle.
First off – I ADORE Emily! She’s the real deal! She came in to audition for a background character. At the time I hadn’t yet cast my main villain – it had been difficult finding a gorgeous actress that had the martial arts background I needed. As the audition wraps up, Emily mentions she has a Black belt in TKD! I was like, “Wait you do? Show me something,” and she jumps in the air and does a glorious tornado kick! I remember calling Larry on the spot, and we scheduled a fight audition with her for Larry to see. It was so cool how it all came together! Fast forward to filming in Times Square – it’s amazing how well a hooded model covered in blood wearing a bullet proof vest can walking around Times Square. I was worried about getting stopped, I was worried about people getting scared. But mostly no one noticed us. Those that did, thought it was funny, and a young tourist girl asked for a photograph! We were there tops 1 hour I think!
Who do we credit for some of the amazing props we see in the film? I see sick-looking goo, meaty-ass prop guns, drones.. you guys loaded up on the craziness some.
We were a skeleton crew for this production so in some ways, I played the role of Prop Master- That doesn’t mean I made all those props (although I didn’t paint and weather most of them!). There are torn off appendages, biological experiments, dead bodies, robot boxers, futuristic soldiers. Yeah there are ton and they came from various places and sources. The Specialists Ltd is one of the largest prop weapon and prop fabricators on the East Coast – they supplied most of the military gear, limbs, and guts for the film. They also helped 3D print and assemble the floating drones in the movie. Futuristic helmets and robot boxers came from costume makers I met largely from the cosplay community. My first contact with the cosplay community was with ORR.
The GI Joe fan base is a great community to tap when looking for live action costume versions of those characters. Cosplayers are the ultimate art directors/wardrobe designers. They have the best eye for details. I met and partnered with some to create original helmets. I particularly love this aspect of the genre- props and costumes are so much fun to work with!
Dating back to filming Operation Red Retrieval and I know there’s something to be said about “thinking something into reality”, did you ever think you would gain the traction you did? I can only imagine you might have had other goals 25 years before then even as you were putting the pieces of that shortfilm together in your head. You made it into a reality and I’m still dying to see a damn Mortal Kombat movie out of Warner Bros.!
Hey, you gotta help me get a GI Joe Special Missions license for streaming – let Paramount do what they want with theatrical rights. That’d be one of my dream projects with Larry! I’ve been really blessed with the opportunities I’ve had and feel like I’ve given everything my all to make the best out of what I’ve had. It’s not about the individual though – filmmaking is a team sport- the director may be the leader to a certain degree, but I’ve been so lucky to have people that have pushed me and my project ahead even when I wasn’t feeling good about it. Having Joe there to push me, my 1s AD, Carol, my wife and Larry were all so critical. That’s the importance of building and having a tribe.
Earlier this year and I don’t know if you’ve caught onto this but there was a trailer for Nemesis 5… A total abortion of the original Pyun-directed 90s classic apart from the even lesser-faring sequels after that. I’m bringing this up because we have Tim Miller and Neil Blommkamp jumping forward in time with their respective sequels with the Terminator and Robocop franchises, and I want to ask you: if there was ever a sci-fi film you wanted to sequelize properly to do it justice (be it cyberpunk or something to the affect of a space thriller like Serenity or even Dredd, or Nemesis, for example) which IP can you think of that you would – if you could – help revive in that same fashion?
I don’t much about Nemesis 5 to be honest but let me tell you something – any movie trailer I see that I think is just so poorly made gives me hope. If they can do it, if they ARE doing it, then there’s room for me at the table. I’m not super old, but I’m old enough to know that most things holding filmmakers back is themselves. More often than not, it’s their fear of failure or of not being good enough that is the main problem. Sure, not everyone has a budget to film the crazy car crash scene, but it doesn’t take that much to film the aftermath of crazy car crash. Creativity finds a way!
If I had a chance, I’d do GI Joe Special Missions. It’d be a cross-section of Jack Ryan meets Sicario meets Mission Impossible. Or I’d do a remake of Transformers with the original 80s blocky robot designs. Or I’d do a sequel to 1988’s The Blob and bring back actors Kevin Dillon and Shawnee Smith who are both still acting and look great. Or I’d do a sequel to Commando where daughter Alyssa Milano is now grown up and has to rescue Arnold. Or I’d do a remake of The Running Man and it’d be a commentary on reality shows and social media today and I’d force Simon Cowell to be the host villain. [laughs] I that enough? Or i’d just work on more GSZ sequels which is what I’m doing now with Larry, or beg Neil Blommkamp to be his assistant – I can’t get enough of his work on Oats Studios. District 9 is one of my all time favs…
Last I checked, you and Hama were said to be partnering for two film projects. That was maybe four or five years ago. With Ghost Source Zero in the history books, are you two still working together and planning things? Or did you already finish your bucket list and plan on leaving us to suffer with some jerk director fresh out of film school and making Nemesis 6??
Dude, you’re too kind! I have relocated to Los Angeles this year so making sure my family settles in is a top priority. But with that said, Larry and I are writing and expanding on the GSZ universe. A sequel feature is written and we also just completed writing a 6-part episodic season as well. The goal is to move into those. I have left my job at Nickelodeon to focus on filmmaking now. My newest venture is as the Creative Director and Head of Original Content with The Specialists Ltd. Yes, that huge prop and special effects company is now getting into the content game, and I’m the head of that joint venture! Stay tuned for fun stuff!
Before we close this interview and thank you again for this AND for Ghost Source Zero, do you have any words to offer for readers on any of the topics we’ve discussed or just in general?
To all filmmakers, I wish you all the best and encourage you all to push yourselves to keep making bigger and better things! Every “bad” trailer you see out there should be encouragement to you that the audience is thirsting for your contribution!
To stunt actors out there, if you’re the ones posting improvised, one-day fight choreographed scenes set in the gyms you train in – STOP IT! Your stuff is SO AWESOME and needs to be its own stand alone story. Don’t label it “test” or “experiment” or “practice shoot”! Get out of gym clothes and out of the gym and film that exact same stuff in a different location. That stuff is gold and if you’re not selling it yet, it behooves you to starting treating it like a short film to build up your portfolio. (and if you’re still not convinced, just call me and i’ll come out and film it myself for you!)
…And to the fans, thanks for watching, enjoying and commenting. We filmmakers do what we do so that others can watch and enjoy it! Don’t hesitate to comment on stuff you like as it really encourages us to keep going! Follow me on instagram at @Mark_Cheng.new_media
