My past activity with The Hit List has done a tremendous service in the course of my mission in helping to extend a much deserved spotlight to stunt performers and independent creatives alike around the world. With the column currently on hiatus now, my mission – apart from expanding into festival coverage and opinion pieces – still stands, which is why I’m happy to help underscore fellow Hit Lister, actress and stunt performer and Emily Carr University of Art and Design graduate, Jennifer Li.
Li’s graduation short, SOLD, was a hard-earned affair for the three days she and her team spent working on the project late last year. In our first interview, Li talks in-depth about the project and what it took to make it to the finish line amidst the planning and preparation as actress and director, and she also discusses at length her inspirations and ambitions, what got her started in entertainment, her love for martial arts, and working with husband and film partner and FCSyndicate favorite, Brendon Huor, as well as the current landscape of cinema in the wake of the industry’s engagement with A.I. and what that could supposedly mean for the future of film as the SAG-AFTRA and the WGA protests continue.
As for SOLD, the film had its first screening earlier this summer upon Li’s graduation, and recently had its screening for the Toronto Feedback Female Film Festival where the project just scored Li the award for Best Student Film. The next screening will be held in September at the seventh-annual Fighting Spirit Film Festival in the UK while plans for an online release remain pending. In the meantime, enjoy my interview with Li below, and also, feel free to read my review of the short here.
Greetings Jenn, and thank you for joining me for this Q&A. How has the year been for you so far being a film graduate and all?
Hello Lee! Always a pleasure! I’m very excited to share with you some of my stories surrounding the making of SOLD, my graduation film, and some bits and pieces about my experience and journey working in film. It feels very nice to finally be done, especially having been in school for so long, having taken so many breaks to pursue and work in stunts and film. Now I’m back to my normal everyday life, training, drawing, doing little creative projects and hanging out with my husband Brendon, and my family and friends.
Was film school always the plan? And also, was this how you got into stunts ten years ago?
I’ve always loved different types of art like drawing, photography, and sculpting. Out of high school, I knew I wanted to go to Emily Carr, but I thought I would study something more artsy, like illustration, fine arts or animation. This was before I started pursuing stunts. But I’ve practiced martial arts since I was young and grew up loving and watching all the old school HK martial arts films with Jet Li, Jackie Chan, Donnie Yen and Bruce Lee, and then I got introduced to martial arts tricking, which was how I got connected with the stunt community in Vancouver and started pursuing stunts. I’ve been very lucky, the stunt community in Vancouver is very kind and supportive, and I’ve made some great friends along the way. I decided to study film since I thought it would be more technical and would be complimentary to my career in stunts and film. I was also very interested in storytelling and acting as well and have come to find a passion in it. Besides, I can always practice drawing and other art practices in my spare time.
You’ve done some big TV and film projects to date, including most recently Titans which ended back in April. What was that experience like?
It was wonderful! The team was amazing, and they welcomed me like a part of the family. My husband Brendon was also working on the show as their fight choreographer/coordinator, so it was nice to get to work with him and spend some time together instead of being long distance. Brian Ho, one of the coordinators was an old friend from Vancouver so it was always nice to see him, and I was very grateful that he brought me on. I got to work with Manny (Emmanuel) Manzanares whom you probably know is someone that is amazing at everything he does; he was one of the people I really looked up to and I was very excited to get to learn from him. I worked mostly with Manny and got to help work on some of the previses in the smaller sequence and assisted with some minor VFX and editing; He provided me with lots of guidance and it was a great learning experience for me. The team was just a great bunch of people and so talented, I’m not going to name everyone but we all got along and had lots of little fun outings and BBQs, which was really nice especially in a city I’m not that familiar with, it was a very nice time; we still have a little WhatsApp group with the team that’s semi-active where we sometimes share memes and updates. [laughs]
I went into the brainstorming process not really knowing exactly what I wanted to create, but I had a few elements I knew I wanted to include in the creation of my film. I had access to a pretty cool location [the farm], I knew I wanted some elements of action, I wanted to utilize the talents of a few of my close friends that are actors, and I wanted to try my hand at writing a good coherent story that had some themes I felt strongly about and related to. The story had changed quite a lot in the re-writing process, so a lot of the original themes and ideas have been cut and narrowed down, which was a necessary process since it was a short film. I had a lot of help in the re-writing process and learned how important it is to get feedback and to refine the story. That was the first time I had really written a script, felt passionate and excited about the story, and understood what it was like to be thinking about the story and its characters everyday, and constantly trying to adjust and improve on it.
My final year at Emily Carr consisted of two semesters – the first half is to write, that is, if we didn’t already have an already-written script, along with workshopping and rewriting our script with the feedback of our instructors and peers, recruiting crew – mainly from within the student body – casting and planning out production and execution of the production shoot. The second semester consisted of editing, feedbacks and re-editing, getting any final pickups and reshoots, as well as sound editing and mixing, and developing a press kit.
Going into the first semester I was very nervous and worried, because I hadn’t been a full-time student in more than a few years, and all the peers I had known and studied with had long-since graduated. I didn’t know many of the new classmates that I was supposed to work with, and the specific knowledge and skills pertinent to production had been long-forgotten from having studied it years ago. I even e-mailed my instructor to share my concerns. My instructor, Carlos, was very kind and assured me that the very fact that I was so worried, and concerned enough to send him the email meant that I would probably be fine…
I had also mistakenly thought that the first draft of our script was supposed to be finalized and ready by the first class, so I diligently brainstormed to try and come up with a story – I struggled and stressed of course, and I even tried sleep-storming – actively brainstorming while falling asleep – to see if I could pull anything from my subconscious, per Brendon’s suggestion. Luckily however, it wasn’t due by that time, and I managed to get a light headstart on it.
Tell us about the three days you and your team spent on this project late last year. I remember reading how the weather became one of the biggest challenges you guys faced during filming.
Shooting in Vancouver, especially in the middle of winter was like a never-ending guessing game, and with the majority of the shoot being on location and outdoors it was hard not to worry. We originally planned the shoot hoping that we would shoot in the sun or overcast. Even up until the night before the first day of shooting, we had our fingers crossed that the weather would clear up, since the forecast was still fluctuating. The night before the shoot, I couldn’t sleep at all with the uncertainties. I realized it was most likely going to rain, and there was no way around it. So, I thought of some solutions, gathered my 1st AD, Si Chen, and DOP, Thomas Mai, who were luckily still awake, and we rearranged the shots so that it would hopefully work with the weather of the weekend. It ended up being a huge downpour of rain on the first and last day, with some snow and hail to boot and completely clear and sunny skies on the second day. It was partially luck, but mostly I felt that it was thanks to our extensive preparation that we were able to quickly and successfully adapt to make the schedule of the shoot work despite the changing weather. It could have been a huge disaster, but it all went according to plan, relatively speaking!
You’ve been around for a while in stunts, but this is your first time directing, and I can only imagine the last several years since the pandemic have contributed some teachable aspects and moments about being a post-Covid filmmaker. If you may, what comes to mind when reflecting on these things?
I would say that although it’s true that this is my first time directing a full indie crew, I’ve been creating action previses in the Vancouver film industry for the last few years. I’m an actor as well, and a huge part of that is about breaking down scenes and sides, and learning to find different directions to play whether it’s for me or for my actor friends. These experiences have luckily given me some base in terms of directing other performers. When I think about directing, it’s not an easy job and I definitely struggled with it as I was acting and producing on the short as well, and that made it quite difficult to focus on just any one thing. I really enjoyed directing, and I think the hard part too also, was just trying to grasp and understand the different aspects of film making more thoroughly so I could accurately and clearly communicate with my crew. I was lucky that I had some very talented and reliable team and crew members, as well those who supported me throughout. As much as I have tried to just do everything by myself on smaller projects it’s pretty impossible for bigger projects and learning to rely on my team was definitely something crucial that I had to learn. I was also mostly working with cast that have been long time, close friends of mine, and I had a good understanding of how to work with them and what kind of energy and skills they brought to the table, so that helped with making the directing aspect easier as well.
I’m glad you mentioned Brendon earlier. I’ve been internet-stalking him since the heyday of Thousand Pounds and his time in L.A., and I hope he’s not creeped out by that. Also, Dragon Lady is still one of the best shorts he’s done with Pei Pei and Vlad.
[laughs] He says “thank you”! And no, he’s grateful for your support and acknowledgements.
It was fun, and also just a breeze to work with Brendon. This project was easy-peasy for him in terms of scale and difficulty of the action and stunts. I also didn’t really push for it to be anything too difficult, but opted for more a more achievable and simple scope for the time frame we had. We generally work pretty well together, so collaborating and building ideas together was just really fun and easy. Besides, given his expertise and help with the action side of the film, I honestly would have struggled a lot more on this project without him. He was my emotional support, idea sounding board, and personal chef; I would forget to eat because I was so focused on the project, and he would feed me.
He was with me at the very beginning of the project, from the brainstorming process until the very end. I was unfortunately slacking on the home chores side of things to say the least; he really carried what I couldn’t give during the few months I was working on the film. I had my head buried deep in planning and he was super understanding and supportive in every way. I am very lucky to have him as my husband and support system. I could go on but, he might feel embarrassed, so I’ll stop here.
How did the graduation screening for SOLD go?
It went swimmingly! I also helped as part of the class committee that organized our external screening, so it was fun to get to see the behind the scenes, helping with the planning and correspondence emails, ticket sales and management, pre-screening checks at the theatre to make sure the levels of the films were good and finally seeing it all come together. We had a pretty full theatre too, with most of the audience members not having seen any of the films before, so we got to hear their first reactions first-hand. Finally getting to see the films we had worked so hard on being shown in a real theatre on the big screen was pretty breathtaking to say the least, and unlike anything I’ve ever experienced.
I think there’s at least one important question that I can’t end this interview without asking when it comes to your craft: What are some favorite films that come to mind that have inspired you over the years, or that you just love the most?
Ohhh that’s a really hard question! There are so many amazing films, and series out there, but I’ll try to answer your question the best I can.
In terms of martial arts films, one of my childhood favourites is Jet Li’s ‘Tai Chi Master’ (‘Twin Warriors’ in America). I loved the heart, the characters, the humour, and the message of perseverance in the film. It’s also what got me interested in practicing internal Chinese martial arts when I was young.
I grew up watching all the Steven Chow movies and have loved many of the films to this day. I still rewatch a lot of his films now, and it’s funny every time and full of memories and nostalgia. I’ve been getting Brendon to rewatch them with me slowly, and it’s so fun to translate the little nuances to him.
The Monkey King – Journey to the West (1997) TV series featuring Dicky Cheung was a huge influence on me growing up and learning about Chinese Culture and I just loved the Monkey King. For a time as a child, I would do Monkey King impersonations and impressions for little talent shows and recite dialogue from the show. [laughs]
I also really enjoy a lot of animated films, series and anime as well – it’s hard to name all of them. One of my favourite animated films is called ‘Maquia: When The Promised Flower Blooms’. It has some beautiful themes highlighting ideas that inspire you to appreciate life and time, and the people you love, and about letting go. It’s a very heartfelt and touching film and it makes me cry every time I watch it. I could go on, and write an essay hahah but that’s the first few that comes to mind.
As you probably know, we’re over a hundred days since the strikes began and with the writers’ guild and SAG-AFTRA pounding the pavement for better residuals and better treatment from studios. Moreover, when it comes to this and with A.I. being a factor, as a consumer, personally I’m not too keen on A.I. being the “future of entertainment” myself, but are there any thoughts you want to add as an artist and creator on this side of the fence? Maybe you can educate me on some things.
In terms of the SAG-AFTRA Strike, and WGA strike, I stand 100% in solidarity with them. It saddened me to read about the details of the terms and things that have come to light regarding the studios’ positions on crucial areas of this conversation, and the seeming willingness to jeopardize the lives and livelihoods of artists and creatives who’ve all put in their heart and souls, their lives into this industry.
I will say that it makes me hopeful seeing all the unions and artists galvanized and fighting back, and I believe that this will be one of those times where things will just have to get proverbially worse before they get better. It feels like a monumental moment in the history of this industry, and I sincerely hope we will pull through this into a new era of filmmaking where imagination and creativity is allowed to take the spotlight, and all of us who love and work in this industry are treated justly to reflect the reality of the current state of our world.
In terms of my stance on A.I., I think that’s a pretty hard question to answer right now. I can see how it threatens a lot of creative industries and will potentially – and maybe it already is – taking a lot of work from people. In some ways it also subtracts from the value of creative work since it would become so accessible and easy for people to replicate or
“create” visual art or music or sound work, even video work just from a word prompt when so many artists have had to put in years to master their craft and spend hours to create any single piece of art. In that sense, I’m not fond of the development of A.I. and where it might go. On the other hand, this “revolution” is happening regardless of my feelings on it, and just from the snippets of information that I see online, it’s so much more than just how it’s going to change the industry for creatives. It’s probably going to change a lot more than I can even fathom, so I can see the potential it may have as well. Overall, this change is so big that it’s outside the scope of my understanding. It’s not the most comfortable feeling to anticipate where this change might go, but if anything, I am curious to see where it’s going to go. If it’s something that I can wrap my head around and learn in order to enhance my own workflow or creative endeavours while still maintaining my integrity as an artist, I think I’m open to exploring it. It’s also in a relatively early stage of development. I can’t say I have looked into it enough to be sure of this, but I think when it’s more integrated and people are more used to it being the norm in whatever way, I hope there will be a balance for artists to still be valued and respected for their own style and creative work, regardless of how A.I. has changed the creative process.
Combining all of your experiences you’ve had in martial arts, stunts and now directing, what are some of the most important lessons you now take with you going forward?
Practice, work hard, and more importantly try to be consistent. It’s only over a duration of time that you get better at things, but also be forgiving to yourself and take breaks. Nothing in the extreme is healthy and your health is number one. In addition, try to create a good environment and have good company. It’s often the people closest to you who inspire you and push you when you need the extra push, even if you can do it yourself it will make it just a bit easier. Along the same line, if you’re lucky enough to find good people make sure you keep them close. Having a good support system is so important.
Also, being a good leader means giving praise, giving credit, and making sure your team knows they’re valued and appreciated. Be considerate of others, of their time and efforts, and just be a good and genuine human, that will make everything just a bit smoother and easier. Be kind, humble and respectful, you never know what someone else is going through. Don’t take yourself too seriously, be excited, enthusiastic, and curious to learn, and just have fun.
Can you throw us a hint on what awaits us next from Jennifer Li?
I’ve just been focused on training and spending time with family, using my extra time to draw and work on little creative projects. There are some ideas and projects in the air that I’m talking with some friends about, but nothing too concrete at the moment. I did submit my grad film SOLD to a few film festivals, so my fingers are crossed. So far it’s been accepted into two film festivals (‘Toronto Feedback Female Film Festival (TOFFF)’, ‘Fighting Spirit All Action and Martial Arts Film Festival’) and one for semi-finalist and it’s pretty exciting!